Stocking Blackmoor Adventures in 1972

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: , , , ,

After “messing up” the defence of Blackmoor during the great Coot invasion in the spring of 1972,  the Blackmoor players were banished to the area of Loch Gloomen (Lake Gloomy).

We are fortunate this happened, because it led Dave Arneson to create new stocking tables for the buildings and ruins found in the area.  Unlike whatever stocking tables Dave made for Blackmoor dungeon, these tables survive, mostly intact, though in a jumbled format on pages 86 and 87, 1977 print of the First Fantasy Campaign.

In fact we not only have the tables, but we have the results Dave got when he used the tables, which is really useful when sorting out certain lacunae and typos in the tables themselves.  So I’ve sorted it all out, in a much more user friendly fashion.
Note: the tables below only cover the stocking portion, and not the generation and distribution of the adventure areas themselves.

Once the areas to be stocked were known, Dave assigned “Magic” points.  These are in fact what he calls Protection points in Blackmoor dungeon – the points to buy the monsters, not the points to buy the magic items (see yesterday’s discussion). Dave used “magic” and “protection” points separately in Blackmoor dungeon, but here the term is conflated.  For further confusion, Arneson’s notes specify the point range for any given adventure area as 30 – 180 (3d6 * 10) but the lists themselves have nearly double that range (90, 110, 110, 120, 140, 170, 190, 310, 330, 330, 370).  Strangely, there’s nothing in the 200’s. <sigh>

A way to emulate the actual range found in Loch Gloomen would be (3d6 +1) * 10 and I suppose you could add 200 points ¼ of the time.  It’s worth noting here that several different methods seem to have been used on different levels in Blackmoor dungeon and perhaps I’ll ruminate more on that in another posting.   
Once points have been assigned it is time to pick monsters.  Arneson gives us this list for  Lock Gloomen:

2d6
Monster
2
Giant
3
True Troll
4
Roc
5
Air Elemental
6
Ogre
7
Basilisk
8
Goblins
9
Ghouls
10
Lycanthrope
11
Balrog
12
Dragon

No doubt monsters were usually chosen to match the amount of protection points in an area, but clearly they could be diced for also.  The cost of a given monster is as given in CHAINMAIL, however, should one wish to, any monster can be used with this protection point method by using its average hit points as its cost.

In Loch Gloomen, where there were monsters, there were treasures, and every place had a monster.  Here is how Arneson generated the treasure: follow the results on the table below to the subtables indicated.
  

D6

1
Wealth
2
Potions & Amulets*
3
Weaponry
4
Tech and Intel
5
Combination Two of the above
6
Combination Three of the above
*33% chance (1 or 2 on a d6) it is an amulet instead of a potion.  Note what I labeled "Tech and Intel" Arneson had labeled as "Information".

Wealth  = 1d20 +4 times 1000 (4000 – 24000) Gold Pieces.

Potions & Amulets
2D6

2
Shape Changing;
3
ESP
4
Longevity
5
Flying;
6
Strength
7
Sight
8
Obedience (animal)
9
Reaction Time
10
Magic Spells
11
Invisibility
12
Teleportation; (Maximum 6 Turn Durations and 12 Uses)

Note: in the text it reads “Magic 7 Amulets (+1 …2)” – I think this means amulets instead of magic potions on a roll of 1 or 2 on a d6. The number seven looks like a typo, possibly for an ampersand (same key).


Weaponry
2D6

2
Super Roc, level  8
3
Hero Roc, level 4
4
Swords
5
Fireball Wand
6
Hero Horse, level 4
7
Swords
8
Armor
9
Bow and Arrows
10
Lightning Bolt Thrower (laser) (Wand)
11
Super Horse,  level 8
12
Bow and Arrows

Note: The fire ball wand is not listed, but there is no listing specified for pip number 5 or for 11 either.  Since fireball wands show up twice in the Lake Gloomen rooms, it must have been in one of these slots.  Also at the spot in the FFC list where one would expect number 11 to be is “super animals 4-8” and notes indicating that horses are at pip slot 6 and Rocs are at pips 3 and 2)  So horses level 8 (lower probability) are presumably at the 11 pip slot where the note was positioned, and level 4 horses at pip slot 6.  So, by default the empty pip slot 5 is where the missing fireball wand must be and that fits with its relatively frequent appearance in Lake Gloomen rooms.

Tech and Intel
2D6

2
Special Devices
3
Flying Machine
4
Teleportation Machine
5
Ancient Books and Manuscripts
6
Clothing, etc.
7
Store of Normal Weapons
8
Ancient Books and Manuscripts
9
Crysta1 Ball
10
Fighting Machine
11
Water Machine
12
Special Devices

Note: Special Devices - I suppose this could be anything, however the only unaccounted treasure found in Lake Gloomen rooms is scrolls of level 3 spells.  Scrolls do not appear anywhere on these tables so I assume the spell scrolls were chosen via Special Devices.  I'd recommend substituting scrolls in the special devices slot  to anyone wanting to use these tables for stocking, 

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On the creation and evolution of Hit Points, Hit Dice, and Experience Points.

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: ,


 “When we tried to use the old matrix rules (for CHAINMAIL™) only one die decided combat.  So either the player would die or the monster would.  Well, the players didn’t like that, so that’s where I came up with hit points….”  Dave Arneson, Gamespy interview by Andrew S. Bub August 2002.

Dave Arneson was a man who never let careful denotation get in the way of a quick sentence.  Figuring out what lay behind the terms he threw around is one of the challenges of reading the FFC.  Within the pages of Arneson’s First Fantasy Campaign one encounters the terms points, hits, hit points, hit point values and values and it’s easy enough to get tripped up on what exactly he had in mind each time.

Amoung the oldest material in the FFC in which points are mentioned is the army stocking list for the great Coot invasion, the dungeon stocking lists of level 7-10 and tunnels of Blackmoor dungeon, Glendower dungeon, and the lake Gloomy notes.

In seeming contradiction to the opening statement, none of the above mention “hit points”.

The army lists uses the “point buy” system as found in CHAINMAIL™.  Various types of troops cost certain points and each player has a bank roll of points to spend on building an army. 

The dungeons and dungeon stocking lists also have a point buy system for monsters.  Arneson used a “protection point” and “magic point” method for stocking dungeons, in which he assigning a randomly determined amount of points to an occupied room.  The points then would be used to “purchase” the monster(s) or magic item(s) placed therein.  The exact method to determine the number of points varied – it was 3d6 * 10 for Lake Gloomy, for example.  The monsters were hand picked, and in the case of the Blackmoor dungeon at least, picked from different groupings based on the strength/cost of the monster.

Comparing the protection point values in the stocking lists shows a few slight inconsistencies, but it’s clear the protection point value used for a monster are the “point cost” for those monsters given in CHAINMAIL™.  True trolls, for example cost 75 “points” and “standard trolls” (77:86) cost 15 points each in Dave's dungeons, just as they do in CHAINMAIL.    

The inconsistencies I mentioned are a few instances of left over or insufficient points for the monsters listed – easily accounted for by Arneson’s statement “When there were not enough protection points within a room to buy a creature I simply rerolled or placed a weaker version of the creature within the room (extremely old or extremely young).” (FFC 1977:45)

So, fine, Dave tells us what it costs to buy a monster and those costs are pretty much as listed in CHAINMAIL, but, how many hits or whatever does it take to kill a creature?  We are repeatedly assured by all involved that they very early abandoned the one hit = one kill method of CHAINMAIL Fantasy table combat, but how then does one handle the monsters?  The dungeons seem silent.  Aside from the available protection points assigned to a room, only the name and numbers of the creature present is ever listed.  Not only is there no mention of hit points in this material, there is no mention of Hit Dice either.   Hit dice, as we know from other discussions, originally meant “damage dice” as perhaps most plainly shown in by "HD = Number of hit dice rolled for victim of breath attack by that type/level dragon." (77:83)  So Captain Krey, for example could roll 4d6+1 when inflicting damage on his enemies. (77:17)

The obvious answer is that the point cost of a creature also serves as its' hit points.  The idea that a weaker creature costs less points, is a strong clue (point value = strength), but it also points to the notion that Arneson was cultivating the idea of variable HP for monsters.  That is indeed just what we see in his monster lists, which predate D&D but build noticeably on CHAINMAIL and thus appear to be midway in the process.  In the mini “monster manual” on pages 89-92,  Arneson tells us trolls and ogres “are worth 18 points (or hits) with variations.” (FFC, 1977:91)   Notice in particular that Arneson is telling us that the “worth” in points is also the worth in “hits”, in other words that "points" and "hits" are synonyms in Arneson speak.  That's about as close as we are going to get to Dave telling us that the protection point costs of a monster are also its' hit points. 

Another thing to notice is the change to a d6 friendly value.  Trolls and ogres are “worth” 15 points in CHAINMAIL and as mentioned, cost just that in the stocking tables of Blackmoor dungeon, but the value is slightly increased from 15 to 18.  The hits given for ghouls & wights (1-6), giants (12-72), orc (1-3) and so forth in the monster lists on pages 89-92  also seem to be based on their CHAINMAIL cost,  made d6 friendly, “with variation”.  True Trolls cost 75 points in CHAINMAIL, for example, and Arneson assigns them a 36-72 “hits” range. Similarly, in CHAINMAIL™ Ghouls and wights are 10 points, Giants are 50 points and orcs are 2.  Yet, some of the monsters in this list are assigned no hits value.  For the Balrog, for example we are simply told that they are “all full value” (77:91)

Plainly, Arneson is evolving from using straight up CHAINMAIL point costs for hit points, to using dice to achieve a variable range, with a slightly lower value in most cases.    

It  is a short step for Gygax and Arnesons to have looked at the point variation range and simply specified the number of six sided dice used to generate it.  In other words, to have listed the number of hit dice to get the hit points.

We are not quite at the end of the story and this brings us back to yesterday’s discussion of Greg Svenson’s notes in the back of his 2nd edition CHAINMAIL.  Here is another section of those notes:

“Life and death:
Mortal 7 pt. damage to kill
Hero 14 pt. " " "
Super Hero 28 pt. " " "
Wizard 21 pt. " " "
recover 1 pt./day
Become hero if possess magic equipment or survived several expeditions or become super hero if you kill 1000 points of anything.”

 Again we see "points" for both men and monsters as synonymous with what D&D calls hit points, demonstrating fairly conclusively that Blackmoor monsters had hit points too, but, just as interestingly, we also see them as synonymous with experience points.  It’s beautiful economy really.  There’s no calculating of experience points verses player level and all that jazz.  You simply keep a running tally of the number of hit points a player has “killed” and when they reach 1000 – bam new level.   

So to sum up, any given monster in Blackmoor has a point value which simultaneously represents how much it costs to purchase, how much damage it can take, and how much experience it is worth when killed.



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Svenny's Notes and Equipment Costs

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: , ,

So, we've talked a bit about it before, but to refresh your memory, Greg Svenson, the "Great Svenny" of Blackmoor, several years ago on Havards excelent Blackmoor forum, shared notes he penciled in to the back cover of his 2nd editon CHAINMAIL(TM) booklet.  I think I'll spend a few posts talking about them, but first I want to take a closer look at the equipment he lists and do some price comparisons.

Here is the raw list:

Costs:
Ground soldier 10  GP
Slave male 10 GP
Bow 25 GP
Slave female 25 GP
Shield & Helm 4 GP
Lantern 10 GP
Sword 1 GP
Silver Crux. 10 GP
Chainmail 24 GP
Holy water
Leather Armor 2 GP
10 gal barrel 25 GP
Full plate armor 40 GP
Magic Chainmail 1300 GP
Pike 45 GP
Magic rope 5GP/foot
Magic plate armor 2000 GP
Rope 50' 1 GP
Magic sword 1200 GP
Magic shield 250 GP
Magic cloak 1500 GP A
Magic boots 150 GP -> make no noise or tracks, if fall land on feet

Magic helm 250 GP

Below I've rearranged this list into related things and assigned a column for the price of the item found in First Fantasy Campaign (FFC), the Dalluhn manuscript/Beyond This Point be Dragons 1973 draft of D&D (BTPbD) and the origninal boxed set of D&D 1974 (OD&D):
.  
People
Item
Svenson
FFC
BTPbD D&D
OD&D
Ground soldier
10  GP
10 GP (LF)
1 GP
2 GP/LF or 3GP/HF
Slave male
10  GP
15 GP
200- 400 GP

Slave female
25 GP
25 GP
100-600 GP



Arms
Item
Svenson
FFC
BTPbD D&D
OD&D
Bow
25 GP
25GP
25 GP
25 GP
Sword
1 GP
10
10 GP
10 GP
Pike
45 GP
10 (Pikeman costs 45)
5 GP
5 GP
Shield & Helm

4 GP
2 + 2 GP
5 + 5 GP
10 + 10 GP
Full plate armor
40 GP

40 GP
50 GP
50 GP
Chainmail
24 GP
24 GP
25 GP
30 GP
Leather Armor
2 GP

22 GP
15 GP
15 GP


Gear
Item
Svenson
FFC
BTPbD D&D
OD&D





Holy water
(10 gal barrel)
25 GP


10 GP
Silver Crux.
10 GP


25 GP
Rope 50'
1 GP

½ GP
1  GP
Lantern
10 GP

10 GP
10 GP

Magical Accoutrements
Item
Svenson
FFC
BTPbD D&D
OD&D
Magic helm
250 GP



Magic plate armor
2000 GP

1000 GP

Magic Chainmail
1300 GP



Magic sword
1200 GP
1000 GP (2700 for two handed)


Magic shield
250 GP



Magic cloak
1500 GP



Magic boots
150 GP



Magic rope
5GP/foot





Interesting yes?  I don't think I need to do a lot of analysis here, and I expect different people will be drawn to different details.  I find it interesting to note those prices which remain the same and those which change a good bit. I find shield and helmet especially interesting, for example.  Svenson's prices for magic items are also particularly intriguing and potentially useful given the lack of any prices given in OD&D.

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